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date: 2024-05-26T07:00:36.534+01:00
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publishDate: 2024-05-26T07:00:36.534+01:00
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likeOf: https://tracydurnell.com/2024/05/17/indieweb-next-stage/
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references:
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https://tracydurnellCom/2024/05/17/indiewebNextStage/:
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url: https://tracydurnell.com/2024/05/17/indieweb-next-stage/
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type: entry
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name: The IndieWeb’s next stage?
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published: 2024-05-17T23:58:43-07:00
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content:
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html: |-
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<p>I think <strong>two main groups of people are drawn to the IndieWeb</strong>:</p>
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<ol>
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<li><strong>technical people</strong> who want to control their web experience, and</li>
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<li>people who admire <strong>the vision on the homepage</strong>: “<span class="p-summary">The IndieWeb is a <strong>people-focused alternative to the “corporate web”</strong>.</span>“</li>
|
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</ol>
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<p>(And some are in both.) You can probably guess that I’m in the latter group 😉</p>
|
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<p>Over its first decade-plus, the IndieWeb community has done a great job developing protocols and experimenting with a wide range of tools to accomplish many online activities. The wiki is a rich resource for DIYers, and the availability of the chat for people to ask technical questions is fantastic. Regular Homebrew Website Club events offer a way to connect directly with other website owners. The W3C has adopted the Webmention protocol. In this sense, the IndieWeb is already a smashing success.</p>
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<p>I also think we could be more, if we wanted.</p>
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<p><span id="more-18683"></span></p>
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<h2>The IndieWeb could help people escape silos</h2>
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<h3>People want out</h3>
|
||||
<p>As “X” penalizes outbound links, Substack builds bigger walls around their fiefdom and celebrates Nazis, Meta floods the feeds in advertising, and Google search enshittifies x1000, people are tiring of their Internet being mediated through corporations. But they need more help than ever breaking free. If discovery of personal websites is hard inside the IndieWeb, imagine how hard it is inside a silo. I suspect enough of us in the IndieWeb community have been free from social media for so long we can’t recognize how bad it is there now.</p>
|
||||
<h3>But the IndieWeb is exclusive</h3>
|
||||
<p>We present the IndieWeb as an alternative to the corporate silos, a place where people can be autonomous online — but as it stands, that’s only accessible to tech-savvy folks with time to spare or people with disposable income to put towards a hosting service. <strong>I’d like to see a more inclusive IndieWeb that welcomes folks at whatever stage they’re at</strong>; we can help people escape the corporate silos <em>even if they don’t want their own website</em>.</p>
|
||||
<p>Right now, ActivityPub or Discord communities are the answers for these folks. They’re moving from a corporate silo to a community-controlled one, which is an improvement, but we know there’s so much more to the Internet than another walled garden. The IndieWeb can offer online community, though it might look different than what silo users are accustomed to.</p>
|
||||
<h3>More people using the indie web in any form helps</h3>
|
||||
<p>I’ve seen people who are already part of the indie web community express regret that no one leaves comments on their sites. Others don’t bother to blog because they feel no one will read it. But the growing newsletter movement shows there’s a hunger for deeper conversation — nearly every Substack newsletter I read has a lively section of thoughtful replies. Having more readers of personal websites could bolster the existing community of indie publishers. <strong>The more people who use the independent web — whether creating new work, participating in conversations, curating links, or simply reading — the healthier it becomes.</strong></p>
|
||||
<h3>Let’s show what personal websites have to offer</h3>
|
||||
<p>Telling people whose Internet experience has always been siloed, who don’t really <em>get</em> personal websites, “the way to escape Facebook is investing time and money in a personal website that your friends and family will never look at!” is a big ask. <strong>First, we need to show them what they’re missing out here in the indie web.</strong></p>
|
||||
<p>People talk about FOMO as a reason they can’t leave social media, but I think more of the good stuff is happening on the indie web. The thoughts expressed on blogs have more space for complexity, links are curated by people instead of ad-centric corporate algorithms, personal websites often don’t collect data about their readers, and the slower pace means there’s time to consider an opinion before replying. <strong>Personal websites offer the <em>quality</em> when the corporate world’s gone all in on <em>quantity</em>. </strong>For a discerning reader, there’s no beating the indie web.</p>
|
||||
<h2>The next stage of the IndieWeb?</h2>
|
||||
<p>While the community gathers to discuss ideas, during the time I’ve been involved in the IndieWeb, I’ve observed that much of the development of tools is done by individuals rather than collectively. That work has been, as far as I can tell, largely self-directed.</p>
|
||||
<p>The Internet we have today was built on a corporate vision and practices that took root in the early 2010s — the same time the IndieWeb arose. As we (hopefully) near Peak Algo Internet, I wonder if it’s time for the community to refine its focus and approach for its next decade. <strong>I’d like to direct our efforts towards a collective goal: expanding the independent web.</strong></p>
|
||||
<h3>My IndieWeb vision: an independent social web “as good as” silos at supporting community and conversation</h3>
|
||||
<p>My wish is for the IndieWeb to <a href="https://tracydurnell.com/2023/11/21/taking-opportunities-to-connect/">enable <em>and encourage</em> connection</a> between indie website publishers and readers, allowing conversations and <a href="https://tracydurnell.com/2023/07/30/playing-together-online-reimagining-interactions/">other types of interaction</a>. My vision is strengthening and broadening the IndieWeb community. <strong>I want the IndieWeb to be a viable alternative to social media</strong>, gradually widening the audience beyond tech-savvy folks by making the tools easier to use and more reliable.</p>
|
||||
<p>In the short term, I want to <strong>ensure the IndieWeb remains a player in the future of publishing and interacting online</strong> as ActivityPub gains prominence; I suspect they are complimentary, not necessarily competitors. It’s worth thinking about <strong>how the Fediverse and IndieWeb websites / tools can work together</strong> to support an interwoven independent web — and so we can explain that it’s worth it to support both.</p>
|
||||
<h3>How we can get there</h3>
|
||||
<p>We don’t have a clear ask for community members to contribute to the mission of the IndieWeb (though saying this basically guarantees there’s a list somewhere on the wiki I haven’t seen 😂) — we often suggest people build something for themselves (and potentially share) or contribute to the wiki. But there are more things that community members could do — and <strong>I suspect people would be interested in helping, if what needs doing were clearer.</strong></p>
|
||||
<p>I think that pursuing an active goal of “expanding the independent web” could mean several things:</p>
|
||||
<ol>
|
||||
<li><strong>refining the tools</strong> we already have and moving forward on protocols with experimental properties</li>
|
||||
<li><strong>extending existing personal tools</strong> for community use or easier accessibility (lowering technical barriers / making plug and play versions)</li>
|
||||
<li><strong>filling in the gaps</strong> where existing tools don’t accomplish the types of interactions we’d like to have between our sites</li>
|
||||
<li><strong>building the IndieWeb community / being more social <em>through our websites</em></strong>, not just the chat and events</li>
|
||||
<li><strong>identifying social norms</strong> for interacting between websites, and considering how our tools could reinforce them</li>
|
||||
<li><strong>connecting with other “branches” of the independent web</strong> to share tools and learn from each other</li>
|
||||
<li><strong>learning from a diverse group of non-technical people</strong> who are interested in the independent web, including readers, about their needs and barriers and how they want to interact online</li>
|
||||
<li><strong>advocating for adoption</strong> of IndieWeb tech by platforms like Tumblr, WordPress, Ghost, and Buttondown, versus targeting individuals, so everyone who uses these tools can be brought in without having to do work on their own</li>
|
||||
<li><strong>digging in on the discovery problem </strong>and considering how we can support curation</li>
|
||||
<li><strong>inviting readers</strong> to join us for the conversation in Blogland and exploring ways to connect as a community beyond silos — how can we make the IndieWeb, although decentralized, feel like <em>a place</em>?</li>
|
||||
</ol>
|
||||
<p>(I recognize that people are already doing many of these things, but I think deciding <em>as a community</em> that these are ways to grow a bigger, more inclusive independent web — and that we want to do so together — could channel our efforts and empower newer community members to take part.)</p>
|
||||
<h2>So should we do something about it?</h2>
|
||||
<p>It’s possible the IndieWeb community <em>isn’t</em> interested in taking a more active involvement in advocacy for IndieWeb tools and protocols. It may be that most community members are satisfied being more of a hobbyist organization than an activist one. Or we might want the community to stay at a small scale so we don’t have to address spam and moderation. What we’ve got already may be as far as folks want (or have the energy) to take it. Maybe there’s some other group that makes more sense to be the David to the corporate Goliaths. But without asking, I won’t know.</p>
|
||||
<p><a href="https://manuelmoreale.com/the-kitchen-slink-post">Manu writes</a>:</p>
|
||||
<blockquote><p>“The more I read and think about the state of the web the more I’m convinced the only way out of this mess is if we all collectively do something to make things better. By <em>we</em> I mean the people who care about the open web, about personal sites, about sharing outside social media.”</p></blockquote>
|
||||
<p>The prosperity gospel idea of <em>manifesting money and power</em> is predatory, but I wonder if community can work differently — that maybe it <em>is</em> possible to <strong>manifest momentum by speaking aloud your dreams and letting others share them with you</strong>. That we can capture the spirit of mutual aid, of helping without expectation of return. There’s a <a href="https://czerneda.com/species-imperative/">sci-fi series by Julie Czerneda</a> involving an alien species that joins onto the promises others have made; in the final book, what begins as a simple, heartfelt, impossible promise between two people becomes so much grander than the heroine could ever have dared or dreamed to ask for, and that commitment proves essential to humanity’s very survival. Sometimes, sharing a vision is all it takes to start something wonderful.</p>
|
||||
<p><strong>So who’s in? Hands up (heart this or comment or send me a Webmention) if you want to actively work towards a healthier, livelier Internet of independent websites </strong> 🙋♀️</p>
|
||||
<p> </p>
|
||||
<p><a class="u-syndication" href="https://news.indieweb.org/en">Syndicated to IndieNews.</a></p>
|
||||
text: |-
|
||||
I think two main groups of people are drawn to the IndieWeb:
|
||||
|
||||
technical people who want to control their web experience, and
|
||||
people who admire the vision on the homepage: “The IndieWeb is a people-focused alternative to the “corporate web”.“
|
||||
|
||||
(And some are in both.) You can probably guess that I’m in the latter group 😉
|
||||
Over its first decade-plus, the IndieWeb community has done a great job developing protocols and experimenting with a wide range of tools to accomplish many online activities. The wiki is a rich resource for DIYers, and the availability of the chat for people to ask technical questions is fantastic. Regular Homebrew Website Club events offer a way to connect directly with other website owners. The W3C has adopted the Webmention protocol. In this sense, the IndieWeb is already a smashing success.
|
||||
I also think we could be more, if we wanted.
|
||||
|
||||
The IndieWeb could help people escape silos
|
||||
People want out
|
||||
As “X” penalizes outbound links, Substack builds bigger walls around their fiefdom and celebrates Nazis, Meta floods the feeds in advertising, and Google search enshittifies x1000, people are tiring of their Internet being mediated through corporations. But they need more help than ever breaking free. If discovery of personal websites is hard inside the IndieWeb, imagine how hard it is inside a silo. I suspect enough of us in the IndieWeb community have been free from social media for so long we can’t recognize how bad it is there now.
|
||||
But the IndieWeb is exclusive
|
||||
We present the IndieWeb as an alternative to the corporate silos, a place where people can be autonomous online — but as it stands, that’s only accessible to tech-savvy folks with time to spare or people with disposable income to put towards a hosting service. I’d like to see a more inclusive IndieWeb that welcomes folks at whatever stage they’re at; we can help people escape the corporate silos even if they don’t want their own website.
|
||||
Right now, ActivityPub or Discord communities are the answers for these folks. They’re moving from a corporate silo to a community-controlled one, which is an improvement, but we know there’s so much more to the Internet than another walled garden. The IndieWeb can offer online community, though it might look different than what silo users are accustomed to.
|
||||
More people using the indie web in any form helps
|
||||
I’ve seen people who are already part of the indie web community express regret that no one leaves comments on their sites. Others don’t bother to blog because they feel no one will read it. But the growing newsletter movement shows there’s a hunger for deeper conversation — nearly every Substack newsletter I read has a lively section of thoughtful replies. Having more readers of personal websites could bolster the existing community of indie publishers. The more people who use the independent web — whether creating new work, participating in conversations, curating links, or simply reading — the healthier it becomes.
|
||||
Let’s show what personal websites have to offer
|
||||
Telling people whose Internet experience has always been siloed, who don’t really get personal websites, “the way to escape Facebook is investing time and money in a personal website that your friends and family will never look at!” is a big ask. First, we need to show them what they’re missing out here in the indie web.
|
||||
People talk about FOMO as a reason they can’t leave social media, but I think more of the good stuff is happening on the indie web. The thoughts expressed on blogs have more space for complexity, links are curated by people instead of ad-centric corporate algorithms, personal websites often don’t collect data about their readers, and the slower pace means there’s time to consider an opinion before replying. Personal websites offer the quality when the corporate world’s gone all in on quantity. For a discerning reader, there’s no beating the indie web.
|
||||
The next stage of the IndieWeb?
|
||||
While the community gathers to discuss ideas, during the time I’ve been involved in the IndieWeb, I’ve observed that much of the development of tools is done by individuals rather than collectively. That work has been, as far as I can tell, largely self-directed.
|
||||
The Internet we have today was built on a corporate vision and practices that took root in the early 2010s — the same time the IndieWeb arose. As we (hopefully) near Peak Algo Internet, I wonder if it’s time for the community to refine its focus and approach for its next decade. I’d like to direct our efforts towards a collective goal: expanding the independent web.
|
||||
My IndieWeb vision: an independent social web “as good as” silos at supporting community and conversation
|
||||
My wish is for the IndieWeb to enable and encourage connection between indie website publishers and readers, allowing conversations and other types of interaction. My vision is strengthening and broadening the IndieWeb community. I want the IndieWeb to be a viable alternative to social media, gradually widening the audience beyond tech-savvy folks by making the tools easier to use and more reliable.
|
||||
In the short term, I want to ensure the IndieWeb remains a player in the future of publishing and interacting online as ActivityPub gains prominence; I suspect they are complimentary, not necessarily competitors. It’s worth thinking about how the Fediverse and IndieWeb websites / tools can work together to support an interwoven independent web — and so we can explain that it’s worth it to support both.
|
||||
How we can get there
|
||||
We don’t have a clear ask for community members to contribute to the mission of the IndieWeb (though saying this basically guarantees there’s a list somewhere on the wiki I haven’t seen 😂) — we often suggest people build something for themselves (and potentially share) or contribute to the wiki. But there are more things that community members could do — and I suspect people would be interested in helping, if what needs doing were clearer.
|
||||
I think that pursuing an active goal of “expanding the independent web” could mean several things:
|
||||
|
||||
refining the tools we already have and moving forward on protocols with experimental properties
|
||||
extending existing personal tools for community use or easier accessibility (lowering technical barriers / making plug and play versions)
|
||||
filling in the gaps where existing tools don’t accomplish the types of interactions we’d like to have between our sites
|
||||
building the IndieWeb community / being more social through our websites, not just the chat and events
|
||||
identifying social norms for interacting between websites, and considering how our tools could reinforce them
|
||||
connecting with other “branches” of the independent web to share tools and learn from each other
|
||||
learning from a diverse group of non-technical people who are interested in the independent web, including readers, about their needs and barriers and how they want to interact online
|
||||
advocating for adoption of IndieWeb tech by platforms like Tumblr, WordPress, Ghost, and Buttondown, versus targeting individuals, so everyone who uses these tools can be brought in without having to do work on their own
|
||||
digging in on the discovery problem and considering how we can support curation
|
||||
inviting readers to join us for the conversation in Blogland and exploring ways to connect as a community beyond silos — how can we make the IndieWeb, although decentralized, feel like a place?
|
||||
|
||||
(I recognize that people are already doing many of these things, but I think deciding as a community that these are ways to grow a bigger, more inclusive independent web — and that we want to do so together — could channel our efforts and empower newer community members to take part.)
|
||||
So should we do something about it?
|
||||
It’s possible the IndieWeb community isn’t interested in taking a more active involvement in advocacy for IndieWeb tools and protocols. It may be that most community members are satisfied being more of a hobbyist organization than an activist one. Or we might want the community to stay at a small scale so we don’t have to address spam and moderation. What we’ve got already may be as far as folks want (or have the energy) to take it. Maybe there’s some other group that makes more sense to be the David to the corporate Goliaths. But without asking, I won’t know.
|
||||
Manu writes:
|
||||
“The more I read and think about the state of the web the more I’m convinced the only way out of this mess is if we all collectively do something to make things better. By we I mean the people who care about the open web, about personal sites, about sharing outside social media.”
|
||||
The prosperity gospel idea of manifesting money and power is predatory, but I wonder if community can work differently — that maybe it is possible to manifest momentum by speaking aloud your dreams and letting others share them with you. That we can capture the spirit of mutual aid, of helping without expectation of return. There’s a sci-fi series by Julie Czerneda involving an alien species that joins onto the promises others have made; in the final book, what begins as a simple, heartfelt, impossible promise between two people becomes so much grander than the heroine could ever have dared or dreamed to ask for, and that commitment proves essential to humanity’s very survival. Sometimes, sharing a vision is all it takes to start something wonderful.
|
||||
So who’s in? Hands up (heart this or comment or send me a Webmention) if you want to actively work towards a healthier, livelier Internet of independent websites 🙋♀️
|
||||
|
||||
Syndicated to IndieNews.
|
||||
summary: The IndieWeb is a people-focused alternative to the “corporate web”.
|
||||
syndication: https://news.indieweb.org/en
|
||||
mention:
|
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url: https://tracydurnell.com/questions/future-of-the-internet/
|
||||
published: 2023-03-18T15:11:56-07:00
|
||||
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|
||||
html: <p>What do I want the future of the Internet to look like? Last updated 2024 May 19 | More of my big questions Sub-questions What do I want out of the Internet? What’s a better way to use the Internet? How can I support the independent web? What are the social norms around blogging and…</p>
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text: What do I want the future of the Internet to look like? Last updated 2024 May 19 | More of my big questions Sub-questions What do I want out of the Internet? What’s a better way to use the Internet? How can I support the independent web? What are the social norms around blogging and…
|
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name: What do I want the future of the Internet to look like? Last updated 2024 May 19 | More of my big questions Sub-questions What do I want out of the Internet? What’s a better way to use the Internet? How can I support the independent web? What are the social norms around blogging and…
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published: 2023-03-18T15:37:16-07:00
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content:
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||||
html: <p>How can I build relationships and join in community during a pandemic? Last updated 2024 May 19 | More of my big questions Sub-questions How can I be a better friend? What does community look like? How much are relationships and community bound by geography? How can the Internet support healthy communities and relationships? How…</p>
|
||||
text: How can I build relationships and join in community during a pandemic? Last updated 2024 May 19 | More of my big questions Sub-questions How can I be a better friend? What does community look like? How much are relationships and community bound by geography? How can the Internet support healthy communities and relationships? How…
|
||||
name: How can I build relationships and join in community during a pandemic? Last updated 2024 May 19 | More of my big questions Sub-questions How can I be a better friend? What does community look like? How much are relationships and community bound by geography? How can the Internet support healthy communities and relationships? How…
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url: https://artlung.com/blog/2024/05/18/wheres-the-indieweb-going-some-random-musings/
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published: 2024-05-18T02:51:32-07:00
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html: <p>Tracy Durnell, who you ought to be reading, posted The IndieWeb’s next stage?. But the growing newsletter movement shows there’s a hunger for deeper conversation…</p>
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text: Tracy Durnell, who you ought to be reading, posted The IndieWeb’s next stage?. But the growing newsletter movement shows there’s a hunger for deeper conversation…
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url: https://tracydurnell.com/2024/05/18/social-norms-of-the-indieweb/
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html: <p>Questions and followup thoughts from today’s Bonus Homebrew Website Club on the social norms of the IndieWeb. Notes here. Social norms across platforms and between…</p>
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url: https://jan.boddez.net/likes/00ddbf415d
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published: 2024-05-19T15:05:00-07:00
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html: <p><i>Likes <a href="https://tracydurnell.com/2024/05/17/indieweb-next-stage/" rel="ugc">The IndieWeb’s next stage?</a> by <span>Tracy Durnell</span>.</i></p>
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html: <p>Liked</p>
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|
||||
url: https://werd.io/2024/the-indiewebs-next-stage
|
||||
published: 2024-05-20T08:37:10-07:00
|
||||
content:
|
||||
html: <p>“I want the IndieWeb to be a viable alternative to social media, gradually widening the audience beyond tech-savvy folks by making the tools easier to…</p>
|
||||
text: “I want the IndieWeb to be a viable alternative to social media, gradually widening the audience beyond tech-savvy folks by making the tools easier to…
|
||||
name: “I want the IndieWeb to be a viable alternative to social media, gradually widening the audience beyond tech-savvy folks by making the tools easier to…
|
||||
author:
|
||||
type: card
|
||||
url: https://tracydurnell.com
|
||||
uid: https://tracydurnell.com
|
||||
photo: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/b1231bba531dc25e30cd37258109de9c?s=125&d=default&r=pg
|
||||
name: Tracy Durnell
|
||||
note: Writer and designer in the Seattle area. Reach me at tracy.durnell@gmail.com. She/her.
|
||||
children:
|
||||
- type: card
|
||||
photo: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/b1231bba531dc25e30cd37258109de9c?s=160&d=mm&r=pg
|
||||
- type: card
|
||||
photo: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/00cb64702e2a93a187960a7c0dbc4a4e?s=120&d=mm&r=pg
|
||||
name: Colin Walker
|
||||
url: https://colinwalker.blog/
|
||||
- type: card
|
||||
photo: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/b1231bba531dc25e30cd37258109de9c?s=120&d=mm&r=pg
|
||||
name: Tracy Durnell
|
||||
url: https://tracydurnell.com
|
||||
- type: card
|
||||
photo: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/dda2383cf9d9ea6647976dc0c45bcfa3?s=120&d=mm&r=pg
|
||||
name: Robin
|
||||
url: https://roblog.nl
|
||||
- type: card
|
||||
photo: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/b1231bba531dc25e30cd37258109de9c?s=120&d=mm&r=pg
|
||||
name: Tracy Durnell
|
||||
url: https://tracydurnell.com
|
||||
- type: card
|
||||
photo: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/1d7a7610cb0f02de44be3c4186f82ac3?s=120&d=mm&r=pg
|
||||
name: Bill Seitz
|
||||
url: http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki
|
||||
- type: card
|
||||
photo: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/b1231bba531dc25e30cd37258109de9c?s=120&d=mm&r=pg
|
||||
name: Tracy Durnell
|
||||
url: https://tracydurnell.com
|
||||
slug: uber3
|
||||
---
|
||||
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Reference in a new issue